Restraining Orders in California: Interview With Attorney Padideh Jafari

Attorney Jafari: In California, where we practice law, there is a temporary restraining order which the threshold to getting that is very low. Every jurisdiction and every state has different thresholds for what a restraining order is.

Attorney Jafari: When I was going through it, it was confusing and scary at the same time. Men tend to be fixers, right? They want to fix things. So, when they get the restraining order, the sheriff serves them, and immediately they want to call their spouse or the mother of their child if they’re not married. Do not do that because that’s actually a violation of the restraining order.

Moustapha:  What if you know that she’s lying? You know that what’s being put on that paper is all lies, and you guys have children.

Attorney Jafari: Yes, there is a bias in the court system between the genders. If you are asking for no custody, the other parent won’t get custody and won’t even see their child for that 3-week period.

[Intro]

Moustapha: We have attorney Jafari with us, and she practices family law in the state of California. She has been advocating for children and family since 2003, so that’s well over 20 years now. We are truly honored to have her here today. Today, we will be talking about TPO or TIO, as it is referred to here in Georgia, which is a restraining order in family court and how it’s weaponized against men primarily. This is not to say that it’s not used against women, but in the majority of the time, it’s used against men in divorce or custody cases. Today, we’re here to get a better understanding of what that is. Attorney Jafari, thank you so much and welcome to the Family Court podcast.

Attorney Jafari: Thank you so much, Mustafa. I’m happy to be here and shed some light on restraining orders. Thank you.

Moustapha: This is something that I have experienced myself, and when I was going through it, it was confusing and scary at the same time, just not knowing what it is and how to respond to it.

And I get a lot of these questions on my platform, and sometimes, like I was saying earlier, it’s hard to answer that question because family law is different in every state and in every jurisdiction. I wanted to start with this question, if I can: what is a temporary restraining order for those that don’t know what it is?

Attorney Jafari: You’re absolutely right, Mustafa. It’s exactly what you said. Every jurisdiction and every state has a different threshold for what a restraining order is. So, in California, there is a temporary restraining order where the threshold to getting that is very low. You obviously have to have abuse. You do have to have financial abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, harassment, and things of that nature. And really, it’s up to the judge if the judge wants to grant you that temporary restraining order, and that lasts for three weeks. If you are asking for no custody, then the other parent won’t get custody and won’t even see their child for that 3-week period. So, the judge has a lot of discretion if you’re asking for a move-out order. The judge can sign that and say yes, the other party has to move out even though there isn’t that much evidence right because the other side hasn’t really even had a chance to defend themselves. It’s basically on one person’s request for the restraining order.

Moustapha: Wow, wow. So, I did not know that. What constitutes financial abuse when it comes to this?

Attorney Jafari: Financial abuse is where one party has more control over the finances and is basically cutting off the other spouse from the finances. So, somebody can go to court and say, “Look, here is all the harassment, here all the texts, here all the emails, and they’re financially abusing me by shutting off all my credit cards, shutting off the joint account, leaving me basically to fend for myself, and now I’m like in the middle of bankruptcy pretty much because they’ve cut off all the finances.”  We have many situations like that, both for men and for women. We have, now in 2024, a lot of women that also work, and we have husbands that are relying on that income. And so she also can cut off the credit cards and empty or drain out the joint bank account. So now he’s like, “I have no money. I can’t even afford an attorney because everything’s been cut off.” that’s also another thing that courts look at, especially initially because judges don’t know. Mustafa, it’s like somebody comes to court and they’re saying, “The other part is doing this, my spouse is doing this.” Judges don’t know, and so they want to be very cautious and err on the side of caution. That’s why they’ll say, “Okay, for three weeks, you stay in your corner, and he stays on his corner, and she stays on her corner,” and then in three weeks, we’ll have a trial to see what’s true, what’s not true, what we can do here to minimize the drama and the chaos.

Moustapha: Okay, so what if you know that she’s lying? You know that what’s been put on that paper is all lies, and you guys have children involved in the mix. So, for that three weeks, you have to stay away from your children.

Attorney Jafari: Yes, yes. Now, sometimes, you can say that you are okay with giving custody, parenting rights to the other person, to the other parent for that three-week period. Some judges say, “Look, okay, the abuse has been against you and not against the children, so we want to give the other party, which in your case, I know you talk a lot about your situation, we want to give the father some visitation in that three-week period.” So, in that type of situation, we suggest that somebody like yourself would only see the children and pick up the children from the police station because it actually protects you. If the other person is making these false allegations that you haven’t had time to defend yourself against, then it would be to your benefit to actually go to the police station, pick up your children, see them, and bring them back to the police station for pickups and drop-offs.

Moustapha: Okay, and this thing with the false allegations, and this is what I keep saying, I experienced this myself, and I know so many people, especially on my private dad’s group, I have over 2,000 fathers that are in that group. So, just about, I want to say about 80% of them have experienced some type of false allegations in Family Court, you know, especially knowing that they have children. And it’s used so much so that it has its own name, the Silver Bullet, which is designed to basically disable the other parent, in this case, again, is the father. So, I have been served with this, I got it. So, now, how do I defend myself against it?

Attorney Jafari: Well, for that three-week period of time, there’s not much you can do other than if you want to file a mutual restraining order, then you can do that. Obviously, but let’s say that you’re not going to go that route, and you’re not going to file a restraining order, really in those three weeks, there’s nothing that you can do right because your hands are tied behind your back because the person, your spouse, has filed a restraining order, and now you need to stay away. And this is really key because I know that your father’s group, men tend to be fixers right. They want to fix things, so it’s like they get the restraining order, the sheriff serves them, and then immediately they want to call their spouse or the mother of their child if they’re not married, and say, “Oh my gosh, let’s fix this. I will stay away, but I definitely want to see our child,” right. Do not do that because that’s actually a violation of the restraining order.: So, do not become a fixer. Do not call, email, no texting. Get an attorney, especially if you know that it’s false allegations because you’re going to need your attorney to prove the things that this other person is saying are false. Let me give you an example of that. I just had a trial two weeks ago where the reverse happened. The father filed a false allegation restraining order on my client, which was the mother. This was before I became her attorney because you know these false allegations, they quickly file them, right. And so, you know, it was very difficult, especially because he did not have an attorney, so the judge really was like almost siding with him right was like, “Okay, well, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt because you don’t have an attorney.” It’s not that he couldn’t afford an attorney. He purposely did that to look like the victim. And so, I had to represent my client and literally, Mustafa, it took weeks, those three weeks, for me to go step by step, line by line, by line to say the things that he was saying were not true, and he was using the custody, he was using custody as an in the restraining order as a weapon. And you know what the judge said, which was really good, the judge dismissed the restraining order. But the judge said, “You are using this restraining order as a sword to gain custody, but the restraining order is supposed to be a shield for victims of violence.” So when the judge said that, I got so excited because I said, “Oh my goodness,” because we know that it’s both genders, right. Both genders can play this dirty game, and so in just in this situation, it was the husband that was playing it, and the judge saw right through that and the judge said, “No, you are using this as a sword,” and restraining orders are supposed to be a shield for really, you know, domestic violence where there has been physical violence where there has been clear, you know, financial abuse, harassment, slashing someone’s tires, you know, things of that nature. And I thought, “Oh my goodness, you know, thank God that this judge got it right.” But again, my client wasn’t able to see her child, right, all that time. And so, you know, it’s great when the system works, but I wish that judges were more careful in making sure that what the allegation is true, but they don’t have the time to do that because the other party is usually not notified right, so they’re not in court, they can’t defend themselves, and the threshold is very low right. The threshold for trial is preponderance of the evidence in California, which is 51%.Wow, so he had to prove, in this case, 51% that, you know, yes, there was domestic violence, and he couldn’t prove that because everything he was saying was false. Yeah, and so I didn’t even have to put on my client after he testified, and I was able to cross-examine him. That’s when I told the judge, “Your Honor, it’s very clear what the petitioner in this case or the plaintiff has done and is using this restraining order for custody purposes.” And we’ve already filed for divorce because we quickly filed for divorce knowing this was the games that he was playing. And so, my client hasn’t seen her child in three weeks, and the judge was going like this, Mustafa, like, “I agree.” And that’s when the judge gave his decision, and he said, “You know what, you don’t have to put on your client. I’ve already seen everything I need to see.”

Moustapha: Okay, now, let me ask you this, just since this is a man platform, I’m going to twist it just a little bit, but it’s actually a good thing to see that judges are now picking up on this thing, but let me ask you, so if it was reversed, let’s say if it was the woman that filed it, I’m sure you have been practicing for, you know, 21 years, you have seen this, so let’s say the mother files against a father, have you ever seen a judge reacted the same way that he reacted with the husband when he filed it against the wife?

Attorney Jafari: Look, and I talk about this in my social media, there is a bias in the court system between the genders. There just is, okay. Like, for instance, how many husbands and fathers do you know that get child support or just about all of them just about all of them paying for child support, but to get, it’s yeah, you see, it’s barely none, really right.

Moustapha: So, the same can be true, obviously, for both, but look, we have to make the same arguments as we would for a father that we represent and a mother, but we have had situations, obviously, where we’ve represented the father, and the mother is lying, and the same is true, we’ve gotten the domestic violence restraining order dismissed, but that’s because we’re lawyers, right. We’re supposed to be able to make the arguments and not put any emotion towards it. The problem is, Mustafa, a lot of people can’t afford attorneys right, and so they go to court, and they’re so emotional, and they’re like, “If I could just convince the judge, you know, that this didn’t happen,” and they’re arguing on emotion, not logic, not the law, not rules of evidence, that’s where they get themselves in trouble because the judge is like, “They don’t care about the emotional aspect.” And so, they want to know she’s making an allegation right, where does this come from. They’re not going to think she’s lying.

Moustapha: Right, that’s a good thing you just said. Can you repeat what you just said like the judge don’t really care about your emotions. They’re all looking for evidence. Can you say that again, please, because a lot of men, and I talk to this a lot on my platform, when you’re dealing with any type of family court-related issue, you have to take your emotions out of it. Can you touch on that just a little bit more, please?

Attorney Jafari: Yes, so even as lawyers, we have to stay very stoic, okay. If you don’t know what stoicism is, look at Tim Ferris. He’s got a lot of YouTube videos about stoicism, and basically, what that is, is we have to keep all the emotions out of it, okay. We have to be very stoic, like no emotional up and down, no talking over her when she’s testifying, making sure that you have all of your documentation. Sometimes, if she’s saying, “You know, I, you know, he hit me,” he can say, “Well, was there a police report?” “No, there was no police report.” “Well, if you were in fear, then why didn’t you get a police report?” “Oh, I didn’t want to get a police report, but why were you in fear then, isn’t that your testimony right, you were testifying under oath that you were in fear.” So, everybody knows if you’re in fear, you get a restraining order. And isn’t it true that the following day, you and I had relations with one another. See, now I’m putting doubt in the judge’s mind that wait a minute, she couldn’t have been in fear, there couldn’t have been, you know what I’m saying. So, little by little, it’s how you chip away at that situation. Sometimes, you know, this alleged physical violence happens, but the person never goes to the emergency room, you know, and so you ask about that. “Did you go to the 24-hour clinic?” “No, I didn’t.” “Well, but you’re testifying under oath. See, you emphasize that, right, that there was physical violence.” “So, you didn’t call the police, and you didn’t go to the ER, so you know, how, what was the excuse to see?” So, little by little, but again, you cannot do that if you’re not an attorney because you don’t even know the questions and half the time, you’re sitting there like crying right. And so, the judge is like, “Yeah, that’s so true. Yeah, that’s so true.” When I was dealing with it, that was my fear. It’s just, you don’t know what to say even if you do know what to say, how are you supposed to say in a way that is convincing to the judge that she’s lying, you know, and the thing that really saved me at the time, I was working a lot, and the job that I had in, I was traveling a lot. So, the thing that helped me and the attorney that I had at the time was we started putting together the schedule, I mean, the date and the time that she used to allege that I was abusing her. So, when we put all this stuff together, it just didn’t match, you know, so but yeah, you’re absolutely right.

Moustapha: So, from, let’s say, once the judge granted a temporary restraining order, so you said that’s three weeks in California, so if, if for example, God forbidden, the judge now makes it into a permanent, how many more well, what’s the time on that?

Attorney Jafari: Okay, so at the time that there’s trial after those three weeks pass, there’s a trial, and so at that point, you can have your attorney, you can have your documentation, your pictures, your travel itinerary like you probably had, any videos, text messages, you know, if you had relations together, you know, after the abuse, you know, things of that nature. So, you come to the trial, and that’s where you get to question the other party, the other spouse. And um, so let’s say you’re unsuccessful, and the judge says, “You know what, by 51%, which is not a lot, right, by the preponderance of the evidence, 51%, I’m going to grant the restraining order.” It can be for three months, six months, one year, or three years maximum in family court in California. So, for three years, I’m granting the permanent restraining order for three years, but when you have a child, they will also put a parenting plan together, okay. So, it’s not like for three years, you won’t have access to your child. They’re just going to make sure that you know, you do the exchanges at a police station or like a public library or something like that. I always say no, let’s just do it at the police station because I want my client protected, right. I don’t want any more false allegations, and now contempt because now there’s something else. So, I’m like no, no, no, you want a restraining order, we’re going to do it at the police station where my client can record the interaction, and you know what’s so interesting is these people that get these false allegations, these narcissists, sociopaths, these mentally ill people that do this to ruin other people’s lives, they don’t usually want to meet at a police station. Wow because that to them, they’re losing control because they know, wait, I’m going to go to a police station now, and it’s like yeah because you’re in fear, right, and so that the police are there to protect you, right, and so you can see that their story starts to fall apart because they’re like no, I don’t want that.

Moustapha: It’s funny you said that, that’s exactly what happened in my case because I did request to meet at a police station, and she refused even after it was dismissed because I wanted to now start to protect myself like I record every interaction that I have with her, and the police station, it’s literally where I want to meet, but she doesn’t want to meet the police station. It’s funny that you say that. 

Attorney Jafari: All right, so and let me just say this for people that are listening, your audience, I didn’t even know that about Mustafa. I didn’t know his story, but I didn’t know that little bit of that story about the police station, but you just see what happens is that the blueprint of these people that make these false allegations is the same, the stories are a little different, but you see, this is the blueprint. And I think, Mustafa, what you do is so great with these men’s groups is that you tell them the blueprint, right, and you say, “Look, if she’s starting to act crazy, you know, she’s starting to, this is, you know, and you give them that blueprint,” and so they can sort of connect the dots and say, “Yes, yes, this is checking off. I need to protect myself. I need to leave the house or go live with a relative or friend.” And so, you know, that’s how you, people like yourself are helping these men. Do you see what I’m saying?

Moustapha: Yes, ma’am, yes, ma’am, absolutely. Thank you for saying that, uh, and I wanted to, uh, because I get a lot of father that do this, and I just want to get it from an attorney’s perspective when, God forbid, that restraining order has been now granted like you say three months, let’s say three months, and that was shy order, it’s now in effect. Does it create some type of a criminal record, but I guess before you answer that, does it include the other parties’ family and close friends?

Attorney Jafari: Okay, so it can, yes, it can include, not usually their friends unless you have contacted the friends, but it’s usually just the other party, and if you live with your family like let’s say you live with your aunt and uncle or you live with your mom and dad, it can include them as well. But uh, generally, it’s just the two people, and you can ask that, you can say, “Okay, Your Honor, I haven’t done anything to her friends. I haven’t done anything to her mother and father, and so I don’t want them included in the restraining order.”

Moustapha: I see, okay, so you have, to ask it, right, 

Attorney Jafari: yes, if they’re listed on there, you have to ask, yes, absolutely.

Moustapha: okay, so does it, does it create some type of a criminal record or temporary criminal record?

Attorney Jafari: Okay, so in California  it’s quasi-criminal, okay, in the sense that no, a district attorney is not going to prosecute you, okay, um, but it’s quasi-criminal in the sense that, and that’s why that 90-day period is really important, um, because within 90 days, you need to have a hearing, okay, um, you can decide between the two of you to continue that hearing, but then you waive that time, which is that that 90-day, three-month period, but it’s quasi-criminal. It’s not criminal necessarily where a district attorney is going to prosecute you, but in the family court, it’s, you know, it’s a no-no, right. If you get a restraining order, you don’t want to violate it because the other spouse can come and say, file for contempt and tell the court, “Well, you know what, even in three weeks, this person didn’t listen to your court order.” and that’s when the judge is going to say, “Okay, now, I know that the spouse is not good because when I gave a court order for no contact, they still contacted,” right. And so that’s how the judge can engage. So I tell my clients that get restraining orders before they hire me, do not like, this is your three-week period of your best behavior you’ve ever behaved paved in your entire life, like do not contact, call, text, email, do not do it, even a third party, do not contact their boss for instance, you know, if they, if you go to the same gym, do not go to the same gym, you know, just be very, very um, you know, good the this three weeks because this is serious, right, you know, this is a serious offense, and so we don’t want to give the other party any ammunition to say, “Oh, Your Honor, you know, in the last three weeks, he’s still, you know, is not paying attention to your, you know, to the restraining order that you yourself gave me,” 

Moustapha: right. When police officer pull you over, can they see that you have against the other person?

Attorney Jafari: Yes, so in California, um, because it’s quasi-criminal, it does go in the police um stations in their records, so when they pull you over, yes, they can see that you have a restraining order.

Moustapha: Wow, okay, so what are the consequences of restraining order, let’s say, um, civil and criminally, you know, so the judge granted a order, somehow I violated a order, what are the consequences again for civil matter, I mean for civil and criminal?

Attorney Jafari: So, it is really only a civil matter in family court, it’s not criminal, okay, and so um, unless you get a criminal restraining order which that’s a different thing and that’s not within the family court, that’s in the criminal court, okay, like for instance, let me give you an example of that, um, you could get a criminal restraining order for instance if your, you know, your spouse has tried to kill you, and now you filed your police reports, okay, you’ve already done all of that, and now it becomes more of a criminal matter than a civil matter in family court. And then in that situation, the district attorney will prosecute on your behalf, but a lot of the cases don’t fall under that bracket, right, a lot of it’s just domestic abuse, physical domestic abuse, and so um, that’s in the Civil, civil which civil is same as family law right within the Family Law Court System. Okay, now if you, let’s say you get the restraining order, the permanent, right, let’s say in this situation, the wife gets it, if she gets the permanent, and you as the husband, you know, you do something, she can file for contempt, so she can file for contempt, and then you could be sent, sent to prison, so that’s why it’s quasi criminal in the sense that yes, you can be sent to prison, you know, and then at that point, it’s up to the district attorney if they want to charge you or if they just leave it to the Family Law Court System,

Moustapha: a family matter. Okay, oh wow, okay, so um, and, and I know this is actually U, I was talking to one of the father on my group uh, was a day before yesterday, and he say that, um, when he was going, going through it, and this is actually crazy to hear from a father, you know what I mean, so he said his attorney was actually trying to uh, instruct them, now he’s no longer with that attorney, you know, but he was trying to instruct them to come up with these crazy allegations to I guess put on the other party, you know, but being the man that he was and to be honest with you, uh, just him talking to me about it, it, it was very shocking, and I was so proud of him that he didn’t go through with it, but he was saying that attorneys sometimes they will instruct their client to come up with these things, I’m not saying that you, that you do it, but have you, have you seen it or have you heard that some attorneys do this just so that they can put the other party at a disadvantage?

Moustapha: yeah, they can amplify the small things right because I was like if if an attorney is coming with this to a man, can you only imagine those that are actually were representing the mother, you know, and again this is not to say that I mean it was just crazy to hear, I, I hear the stories, but to actually hear it firsthand from someone that I’ve experienced it, it was very shocking, you know, and I truly believe that when it comes to family matters, any, all a lot of these allegations or the Silver bullet tactic, it’s a systematic issue, you know, so in every state that you go, it’s usually like you said earlier, it’s usually the same story, you know, constructed the same way, you know, so and which actually, you know, uh, uh, brings me back to the point that I was trying to make, if judges know that people lie in court, why do they still granted, you know, it’s just a little crazy that you know, that she’s not telling the truth because you probably have seen this many times before, have you ever had a situation where the judge just bluntly say, “No, I’m not going to grant this.”

Attorney Jafari: Oh yeah, um, all the time, yes, they, they will, they will throw it out, and they’ll say, “You know, that, that it’s denied for those three weeks,” and but you still have to go back in three weeks, and if they have more evidence, they can present it at that time, usually though if it’s denied, they won’t, they’ll just drop it at that point.

Moustapha: I see, okay, right, right, 

Attorney Jafari:  we’ve had situations where it’s been partially, partially granted and partially denied, well where they’ll grant the like stay away from a hundred yards of the person, and the judge is like, “Yeah, I just want them to stay away from each other,” but then they’ll deny the custody part, they’ll say, “No, I want, you know, like the father to have visitation,” so it’s not that the judge knows if the judge knows a 100% that it’s false, they’ll deny it.

Moustapha: Okay, but it’s usually in that gray area, right, where they’re not sure, I will tell you because we’re in Los Angeles after um, the OJ Simpson case, judges were granting, okay, restraining orders left and right, okay, with little evidence because they were afraid, right, because look at how many times Nicole Simpson had called the police, she even the last time said, “You already know who I’m talking about because I’ve called you, you know, nine times this week.” There’s a recording of her saying that, so just to let you know that because in Los Angeles County after OJ Simpson um, trial, there was a lot of Judges that were like, “We don’t want to risk it, where what if 1% of it is even true, we’re going to grant the restraining order.” So um, that was, you know, that’s, you know, judges also don’t want to, they there’re I mean most judges right, and we have I have friends that are Judges, they’re not there to harm, they’re there to actually help, now does that mean that they’re always perfect and make the right decision, no because they’re human and I tell my client that, I tell my client when we go for restraining orders which is rare, look, I don’t know how the judge is going to rule right, I cannot guarantee that the judge makes the correct decision and they’re thinking what are you talking about, they’re supposed to make the right decision, and I said well, they’re human okay, and it’s very subjective so just keep that in mind, I know you want the restraining order, but keep in mind that it doesn’t always work out correctly,

Moustapha:  that’s true, yeah, that is so true, uh, Attorney Jafari, thank you so much so I have one last question because I don’t want to keep you too long, we’ve been on for about 40 minutes now, uh so this last one and I want to really emphasize this because I’ve had a couple see every question I’m asking you it’s something that I’ve discussed with a m in my group, you know, so um, and sometimes we can talk, but to hear it from an attorney is completely different because you practice this thing on a daily basis, and you see more than the average father for example, you know, although I have my paralegal certificate, it’s just not the same as an attorney, you know what I mean, so um, let’s say the, the restraining order has been granted, you have been staying away, but somehow you happen to violate it, and I know you mentioned this earlier, but I just want to again emphasize how important it is for you to stay away so let’s say you violated it, and you have a custody that you’re also battling with with your ex-spouse, what are the consequences of violating that temp the temporary order?

Attorney Jafari: yeah, it’s not good, okay, it’s not good that you’re violating the temporary restraining order, um, basically the other party can bring it you know, to the judge and um, make a contempt motion to show that you violated the restraining order, um, and it’s not good, you know, the judge will admonish you, they can sanction you which is monetary sanctions like in a certain amount of money, um, and they have the ability to say, “You know what, you need to do some jail time because you’re not respecting,” people don’t realize a court order is like the highest order right from a judge, it’s actually has the judge’s signature and it’s sealed so you have to make sure that you know you’re not you’re not violating the restraining order you know, I don’t care if you have to like fly to a different state for three weeks, you know what I’m saying, just to be safe right just to be safe. I’ve told clients you know, go to you know, go stay with someone else, obviously, you have to stay with someone else if there’s a move out order, um, do not like block the person from your emails, your te, your phones, um, you know, just make sure that you’re not violating it because a you can be sanctioned by the court which is, you know, they could say pay $500, pay a thousand dollar right, and they have the ability to put you in jail, so that’s why I say it’s quasi criminal because they, they’re judges, they can do that right, they can say, wait a minute, you know, I told you and I ordered you not to contact and you still did it, and so no wonder this person’s afraid of you right, and so that’s where it gets really um, difficult, we our clients, I mean I’m not saying they’re perfect, but I have not had that situation in 21 years. Wow because I’m so like vigilant about it and I even tell my clients like with the custody thing like I was telling you with my client from two weeks ago I was like just I mean like texting her like make sure you know because sometimes you know, Mustafa, out of anger too and you’re trying to prove your innocence, you, you’re like maybe I should and it’s like no, you cannot be doing that at all, and so it’s, it’s vitally important that you respect the court’s decision even if you think it’s wrong, the, you respect the court’s decision because they’re the authority now and they stand in between you and your child and or if you don’t have a child, you and the resolution of your divorce so even if you don’t like the judge, you have to respect authority just like you would with a police officer, you know, you have to respect their authority.

Moustapha: Absolutely, this is why you got to take your emotions out of it whenever you’re dealing with the family court, so uh, attorney Jafari, thank you so much, truly thank you so much. Do you have any last words before we get out of here? I will make sure that I include your links, your social media pages, uh, your contact information for anybody that’s in California that’s looking for an attorney and of course, I’m going to give them your information uh, for consultations and so on, uh, any last word you want to add before we uh l off?

Attorney Jafari: um no, again, I just wanted to say that I think you’re doing an amazing job, Moustafa, um, just giving information and educating your community right, your community, um, of men with this information of the Silver Bullet, how it works, what the blueprint looks like, um, I think it’s wonderful what you’re doing. I mean, I know when I started practice 20 years ago, there wasn’t social media, and it was like men were just blindly going through the system, now there’s so many resources, and we also will refer you know, potent you know, our potential clients and our clients to listen to your family court podcast and really get into a men’s group so that you can help them because it’s obviously different coming men from men to men than you know, me saying, “Do not contact her, you know, meet her at the police station,” and he’s going, “But I didn’t do anything wrong,” it’s like, “I believe you, that’s why I accepted you as my client,” so I give them that reassurance, I believe you, but in this period of time, we, we have to be very careful, knowing that if somebody says one false allegation, there’s g to be 10 more behind it right, so I make them very much aware of the situation, so I appreciate it, I do want to say one thing, um, just as a plug, um, 

Moustapha: yes, ma’am,

Attorney Jafari I am starting also a podcast called narc, which is narcissistic, narcissist abuse recovery Channel, and it’s really, it’s not exactly what you’re doing, but it talks about really narcissism and how these types of people are so difficult in family court and how to, how to work within that system of these very high conflict individuals, so I hope to have you as a Attorney Jafari on my podcast

Moustapha: absolutely, absolutely, I’ll be more than happy, it’ll be my honor to be there, I, I mean, I don’t know if you have a little more time, I would love to hear a little bit more about that, so I can share it with my group, I know a lot of father they deal with cuz when I was when I was accused of these false allegations, I tell you, I was standing across from her, I couldn’t believe that thing that she was saying about me, you know, and it got to the point where my, my knee literally buckled, I couldn’t, I couldn’t believe it, you know, and when I talk to other fathers, it’s amazing how many of them have dealt with the exact same thing in family cor, so I think your podcast, it’s needed, it’s needed, so if you have maybe 10 minutes or so to just talk a little bit more about that, so I can share that clip on my group, 

Attorney Jafari: yes, um, actually, so we’re launching in the summer, um, the end of summer, we have, you know, we have our Media Group that’s doing it for us, um, I’m not, I’m not media savvy like you are, and so, um, it’s going to be fantastic, I’m doing it with a friend of mine, you might know John from male victims a female narcissist, so he’s going to be the male component, and he also works with a lot of men who, um, not so much false allegations as as for the domestic violence like you’re speaking to, but just, you know, parental alienation, like real parental alienation, I’m not talking about manufactured right where somebody is like upset and they keep the kids like no like me how how certain types of people will alienate the child for many many many years not to see their, their parent and that there’s no gender to that we know that females do it, we know that males do it, um, and so we’re going to be having you know, dialogues like this and bringing Attorney Jafaris on really for us, it’s going to be mental health professionals that can really talk about narcissism and what that looks like and then helping I we never call them victims we call them survivors helping the survivor or the innocent spouse sort of working through that process in Family Court like you know, they’re going to lie, you know, they’re going to do X Y and Z but what do you you do in in response to that which again you stay stoic, you don’t show emotions in court, and you just stick to the facts right see a long time ago Mustafa a judge told me, um, and I was in in the chambers with the judge which is where the judge sits, the judge said, “You know what, uh, he said attorney Jafari, people lie but documents don’t lie so bring me the documents,” and I was like a new lawyer I was like bring the documents okay so now it’s like you know we bring um tax returns now we know people lie on tax returns but we bring tax returns you know like you said we can bring the um itinerary you know my client wasn’t even in the vicinity how can you know he or she have done X Y and Z so the the narcissist abuse channel is really going to be focused on these you know really mentally ill individuals and how what you know how to deal with them in Family Court how to heal from after you divorce them and what the recovery looks like because you know once you divorce a narcissist, you know what they do they turn on the heat and they get worse, 

Moustapha: that is true, is true, absolutely, 

Attorney Jafari: you think you got rid of them and you’re like yes you know I’m finally divorced and it’s like 

Moustapha: they’re right behind you

Attorney Jafari: you’re back in court next next week for something else and they’re just they’re you know we talk a lot about them because they really are damaging and they damage the other their spouse but they also damage their children so um so yeah so it’s we’re excited about the podcast um and yeah I look forward to having you as a Attorney Jafari, 

Moustapha: absolutely, it will be my honor again and I know a lot of people in my group will enjoy uh that podcast uh Attorney Jafari  I thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to talk to us today uh you didn’t give us your website I know I’m going to include the link on my uh description box uh can you give us the website if you have a phone number that people can reach your office.

Attorney Jafari: yes so the website is Jafari legal.com and then the phone number is (310)880-4541 and so um I know you will link all of that we’ve got you know I do so many videos I don’t know if you’ve seen them you know YouTube Instagram Tik Tok they’ve they’ve got me doing crazy skits on Tik Tok now you know when we first started 20 years ago it was you know as an attorney you would advertise in the Yellow Pages well there’s no more Yellow Pages right it’s all this other social media so um and I love it listen if it speaks to one person like what you’re doing then it’s all worth it right and if we can help people on this really difficult journey um then it makes it all worth it for us so um I’m like you I like to help people and I don’t I don’t represent the difficult narcissistic clients I just refuse to represent them um you know  I really really represent the innocent spouses that have been dragged through you know litigation and false allegations so again thank you so much for everything that you do as well

Moustapha: thank you