Guest Appearance: Ryan Pyle Podcast

Ryan Pyle: And we’re in. How are you doing today?
Attorney Jafari: I’m doing well. How are you, Ryan?
Ryan Pyle: I’m great. Thank you so much for coming into the studio. It’s a great start to the week.
Attorney Jafari: It absolutely is, although I must be honest, I’m looking forward to the holidays because during the holidays, the courts are closed, so I can actually take a real vacation.
Ryan Pyle: Wow, so that’s something quite specific just to lawyers?
Attorney Jafari: Yes, it is, and perhaps if you’re being accused of a crime.

Ryan Pyle: Absolutely. So, we have the holiday coming up, which is wonderful. This is the first time we’ve met, and we don’t know anything about each other. How about we just jump in the deep end and see where it goes?
Attorney Jafari: Let’s do it.
Ryan Pyle: Okay, so where are you originally from?
Attorney Jafari: I’m originally from Iran. My family moved to Southern California when I was three and a half. I guess I’d be considered first-generation Iranian-American. I’m also the first in my family to have gone to college, finished college, and gone to law school.

Ryan Pyle: That’s incredible. Do you remember anything from Iran?
Attorney Jafari: I don’t remember much because I was so young, but I do remember our house and my grandmother, who lived with us.

Ryan Pyle: That’s amazing. I’ve been to Iran three times for photography. It’s a spectacular country—the history, the people, the culture. I fell in love with it.
Attorney Jafari: I would love to go back and visit someday, hopefully under a new regime.

Ryan Pyle: So, at three and a half, you were pulled out of Iran and relocated to Southern California. What was that journey like, and how did you feel growing up in Los Angeles?
Attorney Jafari: It was like living a dual life. On one side, I had to keep the traditional Iranian culture alive to avoid disappointing my family. On the other, I wanted to assimilate and become Americanized as quickly as possible.

Ryan Pyle: That must have been such a challenge for your family, especially for your older siblings.
Attorney Jafari: It was. For me, being so young, it was easier. I learned English quickly and adapted. But my siblings, who were teenagers when we moved, had a much harder time adjusting.

Ryan Pyle: I can’t imagine. I’ve talked to a lot of people on this podcast whose families moved around a lot, and starting over, especially during your teenage years, seems incredibly challenging.

Attorney Jafari: It was culturally different, the language was different, and even the religion was different. But now, after all these years, they’ve assimilated quite well. Although, they’d say they’re more Iranian than American, while I’d say I’m more American than Iranian.

Ryan Pyle: That’s fascinating. Just a few years’ difference in age, and you had totally different experiences. What was it like being in high school in Los Angeles?

Attorney Jafari: It was unique. For anyone from an Iranian background, they’ll understand this: fathers are extremely domineering. My dad wanted to maintain the Iranian culture, even though we lived in America. So, it was constant rules—no sleepovers, no boyfriends, no prom.

Ryan Pyle: That sounds incredibly restrictive.

Attorney Jafari: It was hard because I just wanted to assimilate. My mom, on the other hand, was a schoolteacher in Iran and had a background in psychology. She tried to mediate and soften the blow when my dad laid down the law. Looking back, I understand he was just trying to protect me, but as a teenager, all I wanted was to go to prom.

Ryan Pyle: I can imagine how difficult that must have been. Did things change when you graduated?

Attorney Jafari: Yes, I graduated law school, and I have this photo of my dad at my graduation. He didn’t smile much, but in that photo, he was beaming. He was holding my law degree and flowers for me. He was so proud.

Ryan Pyle: That’s beautiful. I’m glad he got to see the evolution of your career.

Attorney Jafari: Yes, I lost him about 13 years ago, but he saw me graduate and go into private practice. That means a lot.

Ryan Pyle: Growing up in America with parents who lived most of their lives elsewhere must have been so difficult.

Attorney Jafari: It was, but I made it.

Ryan Pyle: It’s hard to let go of old habits and traditions when you move to a new country, especially one like America, where not everything is positive or healthy. It’s a marketing machine that bombards you with a certain image.

Attorney Jafari: You have to learn what to tune into and what to ignore. I think podcasts like this are great because people can decide what they want to listen to and not be influenced by constant TV.

Ryan Pyle: Did you always want to be a lawyer? Where did that influence come from?

Attorney Jafari: I wanted to be a lawyer since I was five. I grew up watching shows like Judge Judy and People’s Court. Even at that age, I knew I wanted to represent the underdog and be a voice for the voiceless.

Ryan Pyle: That’s amazing. Did you always know you’d go into family law?

Attorney Jafari: Not right away. A lot of people go into law school without knowing exactly what they want to do. I knew I wanted to help people, but I wasn’t sure how until later.

Ryan Pyle: What do you mean by representing the underdog?

Attorney Jafari: In divorce cases, there’s often one spouse who has been silenced throughout the marriage. We make sure that person has a voice. We vet our clients carefully because I don’t want to represent narcissists or people who want us to lie in court.

Ryan Pyle: That’s fascinating. You vet your clients? Most lawyers I know would take any client who could pay.

Attorney Jafari: Yes, we vet them carefully. Our firm always represents the innocent spouse—the person who has been silenced or wronged. Divorce can be very emotional, so I personally work with every single client to make sure their voice is heard.

Ryan Pyle: That’s a lot of work, emotionally speaking.

Attorney Jafari: It is, but it’s necessary. Divorce is one of the most stressful times in someone’s life. I encourage all my clients to go to therapy, even if it’s just three to five sessions. They need help understanding what they’re going through and preparing for the process ahead.

Ryan Pyle: I’ve heard that the three most stressful events in life are divorce, changing jobs, and moving.

Attorney Jafari: That’s correct, and I’ve seen it firsthand. Unfortunately, I’ve even had clients who have committed suicide because they couldn’t handle the emotional toll of their divorce. It’s heartbreaking.

Ryan Pyle: That’s incredibly sad.

Attorney Jafari: It’s why we try to provide as much support as possible, whether that’s recommending therapists, collaborating with other professionals, or just being there to guide them through the legal side of things.

Ryan Pyle: I watched a documentary comparing divorce rates in the U.S. and Scandinavia. Divorce rates are similar—about 50%—but in the U.S., almost every divorce requires legal representation, whereas in Scandinavia, less than 5% do.

Attorney Jafari: That’s true. The U.S. is an extremely litigious society, especially in California. However, there are resources for people who can’t afford an attorney, like self-help centers at courthouses.

Ryan Pyle: But those resources must be hard to access, especially for people juggling work and children.

Attorney Jafari: Exactly. That’s why we offer consulting services for people who can’t afford a full retainer. They can book appointments as needed, and we’ll help guide them through the process.

Ryan Pyle: You mentioned earlier that you wanted to work for the District Attorney’s office but ended up starting your own practice. How did that happen?

Attorney Jafari: After law school, I interned with the District Attorney’s office in a special unit that defended children who had been sexually abused. I scored a 98 out of 100 on their exam, but there was a hiring freeze. So, I decided to start my own practice and wait for the hiring freeze to end.

Ryan Pyle: That must have been a tough decision.

Attorney Jafari: It was, but my father was an entrepreneur, so the idea of running my own business wasn’t foreign to me. I opened my practice in 2003 right after passing the bar. Initially, I thought I’d only take a few clients and wait for the District Attorney’s office to start hiring again, but my practice took off.

Ryan Pyle: That’s incredible. How did you get your first clients?

Attorney Jafari: Back then, we only had newspapers and the Yellow Pages. I also advertised in the Iranian community. My dad encouraged me to appear on Iranian TV shows and in Iranian newspapers, which helped.

Ryan Pyle: So, your community was supportive?

Attorney Jafari: Yes, the Iranian-American community in Los Angeles is very tight-knit and supportive, especially of doctors, lawyers, and engineers—our traditional career paths.

Ryan Pyle: Starting your own practice is a big leap. Did you ever have to take on clients you didn’t want in those early days, just to pay the bills?

Attorney Jafari: I was fortunate to have the privilege of picking and choosing my clients, even early on. I was clear about wanting to represent underrepresented people in family law. That focus helped me build a strong reputation.

Ryan Pyle: That’s rare. Most lawyers starting out don’t have that option.

Attorney Jafari: It is, and I credit a lot of it to my upbringing. My father taught us to never say “can’t.” He moved our family from Iran to the U.S. to give us better opportunities, and he expected us to make the most of them.

Ryan Pyle: That’s inspiring.

Attorney Jafari: Thank you. I also worked for several law firms during school, so I had some experience under my belt. And I learned early on that I wanted to vet clients and ensure I wasn’t representing people who were dishonest or manipulative.

Ryan Pyle: How do you handle high-conflict cases?

Attorney Jafari: High-conflict cases are emotionally draining, but they’re also where I feel I make the most impact. For example, I currently have a case involving allegations of child sexual abuse. My client doesn’t want the accused parent to have visitation rights.

Ryan Pyle: That sounds incredibly challenging.

Attorney Jafari: It is. In cases like these, the law can be frustrating because parents’ visitation rights often take precedence, even in situations involving abuse. I have to fight hard to protect the child and my client.

Ryan Pyle: That must be emotionally taxing.

Attorney Jafari: It is, but I take great pride in standing up for people who can’t stand up for themselves. And I won’t represent someone if I think they’re being manipulative or dishonest. For me, it’s about doing the right thing, not just winning.

Ryan Pyle: You mentioned earlier that your firm does mediation and collaborative law. Can you explain what collaborative law is?

Attorney Jafari: Collaborative law involves both parties hiring their own attorneys, but everyone agrees not to go to court. If they decide to litigate, they have to hire new attorneys. The process often includes other professionals, like forensic accountants or child psychologists, to help resolve disputes.

Ryan Pyle: That sounds like a more amicable approach.

Attorney Jafari: It is, and it works well for couples who genuinely want to resolve their issues without litigation. However, it requires a certain level of maturity and willingness to compromise, which not everyone has during a divorce.

Ryan Pyle: Do you think collaborative law will become more common?

Attorney Jafari: I hope so. It’s less adversarial and often better for children involved in the divorce. But it’s not suitable for everyone, especially high-conflict cases.

Ryan Pyle: You’re known as a celebrity divorce attorney. Any interesting stories you can share?

Attorney Jafari: I can’t share client details due to attorney-client privilege, but I can talk about trends. Celebrity divorces often involve a lot of drama, especially when the media is involved.

Ryan Pyle: What’s the biggest challenge with celebrity cases?

Attorney Jafari: The biggest challenge is often managing the public narrative. Celebrities are under constant scrutiny, and that can add stress to an already difficult situation. Social media also plays a huge role. It can create unrealistic expectations and sometimes even encourage divorces.

Ryan Pyle: How so?

Attorney Jafari: Social media often portrays an idealized version of life, which can make people feel dissatisfied with their own. It also provides a platform for reconnecting with old flames or meeting new people, which can lead to infidelity or other issues.

Ryan Pyle: That’s fascinating. Have you noticed a rise in divorces due to social media?

Attorney Jafari: Absolutely. Social media has made it easier for people to compare their lives to others. It fosters dissatisfaction, especially when people see curated, filtered versions of someone else’s reality.

Ryan Pyle: That must be challenging for relationships.

Attorney Jafari: It is. Platforms like Facebook and Instagram also make it easy to reconnect with old flames or start inappropriate relationships. I’ve seen many cases where social media was the root cause of the divorce.

Ryan Pyle: That’s wild. Social media creates these idealized perceptions that are so disconnected from reality.

Attorney Jafari: Exactly. People start thinking, “Why isn’t my life like that?” They forget that social media is often just a highlight reel.

Ryan Pyle: What percentage of your clients come to you for prenups before marriage?

Attorney Jafari: A significant portion, especially our high-net-worth and celebrity clients. They’re more aware of the risks involved in marriage and want to protect their assets.

Ryan Pyle: What about the general population?

Attorney Jafari: Less so. Most people don’t think about prenups because they’re caught up in the excitement of planning a wedding. They focus on the dress, the venue, the flowers—but not the practicalities of marriage.

Ryan Pyle: That seems short-sighted.

Attorney Jafari: It is. I always encourage people to at least have an open and honest conversation about their financial situation and expectations before getting married.

Ryan Pyle: Do you think there’s enough education about marriage and relationships?

Attorney Jafari: No, and it’s something we desperately need. Imagine if high schools offered a class on adult life skills, including financial literacy, healthy relationships, and the realities of marriage and divorce.

Ryan Pyle: That would be amazing. A class on how to live as an adult—how to manage relationships, finances, and even diet.

Attorney Jafari: Exactly. If we educate young people about these things, we could reduce the divorce rate and help people build healthier relationships.

Ryan Pyle: It seems like such an obvious solution.

Attorney Jafari: It does. And it’s not just about avoiding divorce—it’s about teaching people how to communicate, resolve conflicts, and build strong partnerships.

Ryan Pyle: How did the pandemic affect your practice?

Attorney Jafari: There was a huge uptick in divorces during and after the pandemic. Being stuck at home together magnified issues that were already there. For some couples, it made their relationships stronger. For others, it was the breaking point.

Ryan Pyle: That makes sense. COVID either made or broke relationships.

Attorney Jafari: Exactly. Courts were closed for a while, so some people turned to mediation or waited until they reopened. Either way, it was a very busy time for family law.

Ryan Pyle: Let’s talk about your podcast. What inspired you to start it?

Attorney Jafari: Over the past five years, I’ve noticed more clients describing their spouses as narcissists. They would talk about toxic behaviors, but we didn’t always have the language to define it.

Ryan Pyle: So the podcast helps educate people about narcissism?

Attorney Jafari: Yes. It’s called The Narcissist Abuse Recovery Channel, or NARC for short. We discuss narcissism, other personality disorders, and how to recover from toxic relationships.

Ryan Pyle: What kind of feedback have you received?

Attorney Jafari: The response has been amazing. People have reached out to say they finally understand what they’ve been going through. It’s rewarding to know we’re helping people feel less isolated.

Ryan Pyle: That’s incredible. What kind of topics do you cover on the podcast?

Attorney Jafari: Our pilot episode introduces the concept of narcissism and shares personal experiences. Later episodes feature guest speakers, like a licensed family therapist, a health expert discussing self-care during a breakup, and individuals sharing their recovery stories.

Ryan Pyle: That’s powerful.

Attorney Jafari: We’ve also covered topics like parental alienation. It’s a serious issue where one parent manipulates a child to reject the other parent, often unfairly.

Ryan Pyle: That must be heartbreaking.

Attorney Jafari: It is, and it’s very difficult to prove in court. But shedding light on these issues is crucial.

Ryan Pyle: You’re based in LA, so I have to ask—do you have any Hollywood stories you can share?

Attorney Jafari: Without violating client confidentiality, I can share one case where a couple filed for divorce four times in two years.

Ryan Pyle: Four times?

Attorney Jafari: Yes, they kept reconciling and then filing again. It was emotionally draining for everyone involved and tied up court resources that could have gone to more serious cases.

Ryan Pyle: That’s wild.

Attorney Jafari: It’s frustrating because divorce is such a serious matter, not something to be treated like a game.

Ryan Pyle: How do you handle high-conflict cases?

Attorney Jafari: I focus on the child’s well-being. For cases involving children, I keep a photo of the child on my case folder. It reminds everyone—myself, my client, and sometimes even the opposing party—that the child’s best interests should be the priority.

Ryan Pyle: That’s such a thoughtful approach.

Attorney Jafari: It helps humanize the situation. When emotions run high, it’s easy to lose sight of what really matters.

Ryan Pyle: COVID really shook up relationships. What’s the biggest lesson you’ve seen couples learn?

Attorney Jafari: Stability is key. Couples who were friends before the pandemic tended to grow closer. Others realized they couldn’t stand being together.

Ryan Pyle: So the pandemic either strengthened or shattered relationships?

Attorney Jafari: Exactly. Some couples discovered that they didn’t have a strong foundation, while others thrived because they enjoyed spending time together.

Ryan Pyle: Has social media made your job harder?

Attorney Jafari: In some ways, yes. Social media makes it easier to compare yourself to others, reconnect with old flames, or even engage in inappropriate behavior. It’s a new layer of complexity in relationships.

Ryan Pyle: That makes sense. Social media isn’t always real life, but it feels real.

Attorney Jafari: Exactly. It creates unrealistic expectations and often leads to unnecessary conflicts.

Ryan Pyle: You mentioned a documentary you’re working on. What’s it about?

Attorney Jafari: It’s about how social media impacts relationships and contributes to divorces. I’ve noticed a significant rise in cases where social media played a role, whether through infidelity, reconnecting with old flames, or just creating envy.

Ryan Pyle: That’s fascinating.

Attorney Jafari: I posted a preview of the documentary on Instagram, and it got flagged for violating community guidelines because I said social media contributes to divorces. But the reality is, it does.

Ryan Pyle: The irony!

Attorney Jafari: Exactly. Social media connects us, but it also creates problems we didn’t have before.

Ryan Pyle: Your practice covers more than just divorce, right?

Attorney Jafari: Yes. We handle parentage cases, separations, and even custody issues for unmarried parents.

Ryan Pyle: Do those cases differ much from divorces?

Attorney Jafari: They can. For example, custody battles between unmarried parents often focus on proving paternity first, which adds another layer of complexity.

Ryan Pyle: Do you ever have clients you can’t work with?

Attorney Jafari: Yes, I’ve turned down clients who clearly weren’t honest or who treated divorce like a game. For example, I had a client who filed and dismissed divorce cases multiple times just to manipulate their spouse.

Ryan Pyle: That must be frustrating.

Attorney Jafari: It is. Divorce ties up court resources and impacts real people, especially children. I want to work with clients who genuinely need help.

Ryan Pyle: You mentioned teaching during COVID. How did that come about?

Attorney Jafari: During the pandemic, I started teaching real estate law at NYU. Everything was remote, so I was able to balance teaching with my law practice.

Ryan Pyle: That sounds intense.

Attorney Jafari: It was, but it was also rewarding. Teaching allowed me to give back to the next generation of legal professionals.

Ryan Pyle: You’ve been an incredible educator throughout this conversation. Do you think schools should include more life skills, like relationship management, in their curriculum?

Attorney Jafari: Absolutely. A high school or college course on relationships, finances, and adult life skills could prevent so many issues later on.

Ryan Pyle: I couldn’t agree more.

Attorney Jafari: Education is key. That’s why I started my podcast and participated in public discussions—to share what I’ve learned and help others avoid unnecessary pain.

Ryan Pyle: This has been such a great conversation. Where can people find you and your podcast?

Attorney Jafari: Our website is JafariLegal.com. The podcast is called The Narcissist Abuse Recovery Channel—NARC for short. It’s available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and our website.

Ryan Pyle: Perfect. I’ll include those links when we post this episode.

Attorney Jafari: Thank you.

Ryan Pyle: Thank you for coming on and sharing your expertise. It’s been a pleasure.

Attorney Jafari: The pleasure’s all mine.

Ryan Pyle: Take care, and good luck with everything—the podcast, your practice, and continuing to make a difference.

Attorney Jafari: Thank you, Ryan.